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Old 01-14-2018, 05:41 AM   #21
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Where's the strawberry milk Gibson?
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Old 01-14-2018, 06:15 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Silimtao View Post
Or, I could be the worst guy to ask, because I have so many guitars. As opposed to someone who only plays strats, and strats only. But, like everyone else, I have an opinion.

I LOVE Jeff Beck, by the way. I've listened to him for 40 years, but have only appreciated his mastery of the trem only in the past few years.


Strat trems- the vintage, 6 screw ones can be a real bear to both set to float, then intonate. A strat can benefit from locking tuners far more than a PRS, because a PRS is simply better made.

I float all my trems. For me, part of the secret in keeping them in tune is, have 3 springs oriented like this: \|/ - My theory is, and it's just a theory, since I don't know how others keep their floating trems in tune, the pull/tension on the trem plate is evenly distributed. Why not have the 3 springs aligned ||| ? I would say that the springs don't necessarily have equal tension, and over time, they will lose their tension unequally. I hate to change strings to begin with, but I think old strings benefit staying in tune with a vintage trem system because the strings are going to be as stretched as they'll ever get. I'm not crazy about the break-in period on new strings because you're constantly retuning, trem, or not. For me, that's pretty much it. I'm sure others have their own theories and reasoning that work for them. But I think locking tuners absolutely helps in maintaining tuning.

I found the the modern 2-point trem system strange at first, then I realized (or theorized) that the vintage strat trem plate doesn't seem to move as one; it seems to "drag," meaning as you press the bar down, the bass side lifts first, due to the heavier gauge and tension of the string, and the rest of the strings "catch up." I have no idea if this is true, but that's my perception. Without a doubt, you have to work harder with a vintage trem. Some people say to lubricate the nut, but I've never lubed a nut (that's what she said) in my life.

The 2-point trem doesn't have 6 screws; it has 2 posts, and the plate seems to pivot on them. Why doesn't it "drag" like on the vintage trem? I have no idea. Past a certain point, I don't care why/how something works; I care when it doesn't, then I try to figure out how to make it work the way I want. So that's my theories on the strat vintage trem system. I can say without a doubt, that my strats can be set to float, and stay in tune. Oh, one little trick that I found when dealing with my Bigsby- another notoriously "it won't stay in tune" trem system- I found with a Bigsby, if you're going slightly out of tune, you pull UP on the bar, and it returns to "zero" where you're in tune. I do that with my Strats on occasion, and it works. Could be strat nuts would benefit from being lubed. I dunno, and don't care at this point. In the Gretsch-Talk forum, the Bigsby users also pull up on the bar to get back into tuning; whether it truly translates to a vintage strat trem? No idea, but it works for me.

All CV strats have the vintage trem. They were the absolutely best crafted guitars I'd ever laid my hands on (until I got the PRS, and the quality of the PRS is better by a few hairs). My 50s CV strat sounds like a 50s strat- great for surf music, and a bit more. Personally, I'd prefer a CV 60s for a more modern sound. That's why I chose the Classic Player 60s strat (the light blue one). The pickups aren't an apples to apples comparison; the CV likely has ceramic pickups, and MiM (often) and most definitely American made strats have alnico pickups. The Classic Player has Custom 69 pickups. I don't get the same guitars to have every one of them to sound alike, I get different guitars because they sound different. Why didn't I simply get a CV 60s strat? I could have saved a lot, but I simply wanted a guitar I didn't want to mod in any way. And I confess I wanted the "Fender" logo on the headstock, for that magical mojo- totally psychological. I agree with every single person that says a Squier sounds every bit as good as an American strat. I also have an American strat (the Classic Player is MiM). That's the worst strat of the bunch I've had. It's a "Smith era" strat, with the output on the face of the guitar. Strats made in the 80s-90s, are the worst strats ever made- excepting the ones made in Japan, which are practically collectibles now, and cost a small fortune.

As far as Ibanez, and trems, I've had something from their RG line, with a Floyd trem, and locking nuts. IMO, the absolute best in maintaining tuning. If you've never setup a Floyd loaded guitar, good luck in learning how to change the strings. I don't whammy like Satch, so I gave the RG away. The guitar you see peeking on the far left, is an Ibanez AG-95- a jazzbox, but who says you have to play jazz on it? That may go on the selling block.

Charvel make fantastic guitars, but I think most come loaded with a Floyd Rose trem.

Now, if we're talking best bang for your bux with a trem? I say CV ALL the way. The red strat on the floor is my CV strat. I got it used from a Guitar Center for $249.99. With tax, just about $280. That's still better than most CVs I see on ebay. Percentage-wise, CVs hold value better than an American strat that's used. A new guitar loses about 30% as soon as you walk out the door, because it's "used." An American Standard Strat goes for about $1400; a MiM around $800ish or more; a CV brand new? About $400. Whew, good luck in reading this, but that's my opinion.



The Epi SG is really solid. I'm just not a great fan of the SG look. It's not worth selling on ebay, due to the shipping costs, so I may try my luck on my local facebook selling group. I may keep it, only because I can't sell. I may change my mind about ebaying it, and just take whatever $ I can get. For me, having this many guitars is bordering on insanity, when I live in a NYC apartment.

No one holds a candle to a member here...Brian Krapshank? as far as sheer number of guitars. He must have over a hundred. But he has a house, and keeps a lot of them in his garage, and office. I don't have that luxury. I'm not sure I'd have that many guitars under any circumstance.

I don't judge Brian. He's not a brand snob, buys cheap, often trades/sells. I have little patience with brand snobs. For me, a guitar is a plank of wood with pickups. I pay more for the looks, I'll admit.

Fact: an Epi LP is better designed than any Gibson LP. The angle of the head stock is about 18 degrees, and the string spread is what causes tuning issues, not to mention the quality control of Gibson has gone down in the past...10-15 years. For non-Fenders, it's Epi all the way, relative to Gibson. I'm sure there's many other brands that are just as good, but I grew up in the classic rock era, so everything was a Fender or a Gibby.
I am not that hands on with guitars adjusting the action is something I have to do and intonation. But that's it, So the idea of setting up a Floyd rose gives me nightmares. I tried a couple of bad ones years ago. scary stuff. Enough to put me off trems. I will have to think about the information your giving. Will take time to digest it. I am not rushing into anything. But I remember enjoying using one at some point.

Beck. Is indeed the master. A lot of people don't get that subtle warbling he does. Its not in your face. A very natural sharp jolt with the trem, a type of trem vibrato. Is just genius. Not sure I know anyone else who was doing it, Probably is. But Jeff mastered that technique and made it he's own. Its something that got me thinking about trems again. Cover A day in the life JB. Thanks for taking the time to give a in depth answer. Its great information.
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Old 01-14-2018, 06:25 AM   #23
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I was never into trems that much both because I don't typically use that effect and because I didn't want the guitar going out of tune.

When I had Strats I would put in 5 springs and just not use the trem and would talke the bar off. With the PRS SE I sometimes put the bar on and use it. I don't go crazy with it but it doesn't go out of tune the way I use it anyway.

I now appreciate Beck's skill with it more than I did in the past.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:38 PM   #24
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Nice collection . Actually your the man to ask I reckon. I want to get a guitar with a trem. I like things as diverse as satchs dive bombs, Jeff becks warbling trem sound he creates.
I like to whammy too sometimes. But, I can't live with a floyd. However, my guitar with a Wilkinson, locking tuners, and teflon impregnated nut, doesn't give me any trouble no matter what abuse I give it! It does divevombs, flutters, etc just fine!



I read somewhere that Beck uses nuts with rollers?
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:22 PM   #25
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Mine isn't quite as insane but here they are...

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13ht...ew?usp=sharing
The Dano looks more and more sexy every time I see it. Is the acoustic a classical? That's a cool looking guitar too, and I want to replace my Ibanez a/e classical.

Was your PRS set to float? Mine was, and I was real happy about that.

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Welcome back Paul.
Thanks. How are those stinking noiseless pickups.

Quote:
Originally Posted by old geezer View Post
I am not that hands on with guitars adjusting the action is something I have to do and intonation.

Beck. Is indeed the master. A lot of people don't get that subtle warbling he does. Its not in your face.
As with many things, there's a learning curve. When I started playing again, after a many year break, I put .12s on my American. It bowed the neck, and it took me 3 days of cranking the truss rod, adjusting the springs, and moving the saddles. I absolutely hate guitar maintenance.

The CV isn't set to float, like my Fender Classic Player. The trem plate is flush with the body, and really stiff. If you get a CV stock, you can enjoy it until you decide you want to float the trem.

You can go even lower than a CV, and get a standard Squier which will take some work to setup, but they're fantastic, affordable players.

I've put Beck in the "genius" category, and I don't use the term lightly. I've seen him live, and don't recall him changing his guitar a single time.

This guy does Beck very well. A fantastic player who unfortunately died in an accident a coupla years ago.



The only criticism I have about his vid, is his babble about American PRSs. As with Fender MiMs, and CVs, the difference vs. American is negligible, or non-existent. My MiM Classic Player has everything the American version has, excepting maybe locking tuners, an extra string tree, and different trem block material- at double the price. I'm not knocking American, I'm knocking the mythology that a finely crafted guitar isn't made elsewhere. The rosewood used on guitars isn't grown in the U.S.

His demo sold me on PRSs. They hold their value really well, so I bought new, instead of used from ebay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle View Post
When I had Strats I would put in 5 springs and just not use the trem and would talke the bar off.
That's a mistake many strat players make. For some bizarre reason, they'll tighten the springs, and then complain about the intonation, and "going out of tune."

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I read somewhere that Beck uses nuts with rollers?
Possibly. His Fender signature model has rollers, and a $4200 price tag. But, way back, he used stock Fenders. Probably did his own mods. He's into cars, and loves to tinker, so it wouldn't surprise me if he came up with ways to make a stock guitar work the way he wanted. The Fender Sig model comes with those stinking noiseless pickups.

To each, their own. I'm not cheap, but I don't like spending $ on literally no benefit. You're a testament to buying cheap, and having great playing guitars. You're willing to put the work in. Don't get hung up on plywood. Fender makes great guitars from pine. Forget which models.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:28 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Seattle View Post
I was never into trems that much both because I don't typically use that effect and because I didn't want the guitar going out of tune.

When I had Strats I would put in 5 springs and just not use the trem and would talke the bar off. With the PRS SE I sometimes put the bar on and use it. I don't go crazy with it but it doesn't go out of tune the way I use it anyway.

I now appreciate Beck's skill with it more than I did in the past.
I am the same with my Yamaha strat copies (now sold ) 5 springs to lock em down. They went out of tune too easily to use a trem with them. I hear a lot of good things about the PRS I just get unlucky when I try ones very poorly setup no doubt.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:32 PM   #27
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I am the same with my Yamaha strat copies (now sold ) 5 springs to lock em down. They went out of tune too easily to use a trem with them. I hear a lot of good things about the PRS I just get unlucky when I try ones very poorly setup no doubt.
Yamaha strats are great! It's easier to "deck" a trem with about 5 pennies taped together.

PRS are hands down the best crafted guitars in my experience. Music Man is supposedly equally good.
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Old 01-14-2018, 02:50 PM   #28
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When you get old is the time to get crazy.
When you get a bit old(er) it becomes less of a choice. Im planning on getting back to having 40+ guitars in about 20 years.
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Originally Posted by old geezer View Post
Actually your the man to ask I reckon. I want to get a guitar with a trem. I like things as diverse as satchs dive bombs, Jeff becks warbling trem sound he creates.

I wonder about a CV strat, my experience with strat trems is they go out of tune all the time. That is something I cant handle, I wonder about Ibanez What models might hold tuning better. Or any good cheapo guitar that holds tuning using a trem. Wondered on your thoughts, if you know much about this area.
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Yeah thinking locking trems will fair better...
Theres no doubt that a locking trem will "work better" than a non locking trem. HOWEVER, its not a 1-2-3 job setting up a guitar with a locking trem, ESPECIALLY if its a locking trem that floats. Between the correct tension settings of the trem springs relative to string gauge, making sure the strings are completely stretched in, getting the intonation spot-on, adjusting the truss rod, all while having really nice action? Its a learning curve and a lot of adjusting to get them perfect.

Trem's in general throw a guitar out of "balance" by their design, cause they constantly change the tensions and adjustments that are typically stationary on a hardtail guitar, but with the range a locking trem has, it really wreaks havoc in that regard.

Not saying "dont get one", but be prepared to adjust it a lot before it completely settles in... again, especially if its a locking trem, and more especially if that trem floats.
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:15 PM   #29
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The Dano looks more and more sexy every time I see it. Is the acoustic a classical? That's a cool looking guitar too, and I want to replace my Ibanez a/e classical.

Was your PRS set to float? Mine was, and I was real happy about that.

Yes, the PRS is set to float.

The lighting was better in this picture and the Dano looks like it really looks in this picture (unlike some of the other pictures I've showed you). It's very nice!

The two Godins (hollow-body and nylon string look better than in this picture, especially the back sides).

None of those guitars is strictly an acoustic and the one you are referring to is actually a solid-body!

The hollow-body steel string on the left can be used as an acoustic of course but you are referring to the one on the far right I believe? That is a solid-body nylon string with individual piezo pickups for each string. It looks like the "holes" in the upper left bout might be sound holes but it's actually slider controls for the volume and equalizer.

It also can be used as a controller for a synthesizer using a separate 13 pin jack (I don't have a synthesizer and I didn't buy it for that purpose). This particular model is also called the "slim" as it has a neck width that is "slimmer" than the typical classical guitar neck. They also have other versions for those who want a wider neck.

When I sold my classical guitar and I saw Darrel Braun on his YouTube channel review this (I'd never heard of this guitar model before) I decided to get it. It's a different sound and you don't have to just use it for classical stuff. Since it's a solid body it can take higher gain and not feedback. It is solid dark cherry with a thick maple cap.

From the back it looks like super nice cherry furniture

The hollow-body Godin looks nice from the back as well. I don't like burst guitars (in general) and especially the "tear drop" pattern they usually have in the back and the "burst pattern" on the back of the neck and sides. This one has a "cognac" stain on the sides, back, neck and headstock.

I ended up selling a nice Martin acoustic that I wasn't playing much and a Classical guitar as well that wasn't getting much use. However, now I still have an acoustic of sorts because I can still use the hollow-body electric that way if I want to and I still, sort of have a "classical" guitar since I still have a nylon string guitar...it just happens to be a solid-body and it's more useful (to me) than a strictly acoustic classical guitar.

Both of those guitars are less delicate than the solid wood acoustic guitars that I sold.

I'm selling the Tele (not in the picture) for more money (of course) than the Danelectro costs and that will now be my only single coil guitar.

I bought the PRS SE used (but like new) and basically sold a used MIM Strat and used Epiphone LP Studio to pay for it.

So, now I have a lot of variety, 3 of the guitars are like new except for the price I paid and the Danelectro was inexpensive for how nice it's turned out to be and doesn't feel cheap at all when you are playing it (it has a very nice neck).

I paid for everything you see in the picture plus a banjo that is not in the picture, just from selling stuff on Ebay that I didn't find as useful and the stuff pictured.
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Old 01-14-2018, 04:26 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Silimtao View Post
To each, their own. I'm not cheap, but I don't like spending $ on literally no benefit. You're a testament to buying cheap, and having great playing guitars. You're willing to put the work in. Don't get hung up on plywood. Fender makes great guitars from pine. Forget which models.
If this message is for me, I appreciate the nice words. Yes, I am enjoying my cheapos! It's all that I could afford at this time. Of course, I'd like to have at least one American made good quality guitar before or when I retire.

My plywood guitar... Let's see... It should be done today or tomtomorrow with the mods.
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