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Old 07-15-2017, 06:21 PM   #1
zanshin777
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Default Families of Chords

1) This guy put suspended chords in "Dominant" chord category. Why?

https://youtu.be/hqWVC2QRstA?list=WL&t=400

When saying dominant "b7" comes to my mind. Regular suspended chords doesn't include "b7"

Chord Structures

sus2 : 1, 2, 5

sus4 :
1, 4, 5

9th : 1, 3, 5, 7, 9

11th : 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11

2) What is M2 chord?

Last edited by zanshin777; 07-15-2017 at 06:30 PM.
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:51 PM   #2
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Ill answer your question about the M2 chord first.

M2 chord is: 1 2 3 5

Simply a Major triad with an added 2. So whats the difference from the add9 chord then ? Well the add9 chord implies 1 3 5 9.

The difference between the M2 and add9 chord is that the add 9 chord uses the 2 but an octave higher which is the 9.

So really M2 and add9 chords are each others inversions.

Ill write another reply to your other question later.
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:22 PM   #3
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Thank you very much Morfz. I really appreciate it. I'm waiting your answer to the other question.
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Old 07-15-2017, 08:49 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zanshin777 View Post
Thank you very much Morfz. I really appreciate it. I'm waiting your answer to the other question.
No problem ! I wont be able to answer your other question really as Im not sure myself... I understand why he puts them under dominant but cant really explain it.
It has to do with the relationships between intervals in the chords. But how I think of it is this.

Dominant chords function is to build tension. So in the dominant family you should have chords which build tension right ? Suspended chords also build tension. They wish to resolve. This is my only explanation as I cant really explain it any other way. There is a better explanation. Maybe someone else can help us. Its just the way I view it.
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Old 07-15-2017, 11:28 PM   #5
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I'm one of those nut jobs that tries to play chords from the root position so the Bass note Identifies the name of the chord. HOWEVER, when I was learning theory, I was told that I could scramble the notes withing the chord any way I wanted(inversions). THEREFORE, the 2 can just as easily be the 9 as the 4 can just as easily be the 11. When I play a Major 7 and stick a suspended 4 in it, my brain says its not a suspended 4, its a Major 11. Suspended 4ths should be played against a Dominant chord.
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:14 PM   #6
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I'm thinking what he calls M2 is what most people call sus2.


The sus designation has traditionally meant sus4 and his sus and sus7 are referencing that. In certain circles (jazz especially) there is this idea that you want to avoid playing the 4 over the major I chord. The IV chord has a #4 diatonically. That leaves V for using sus or sus7. By extension (no pun intended) any dominant chord can be sussed.

Plenty of songs use sus4 on the I chord and don't concern themselves with avoiding the 4.

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Old 07-16-2017, 02:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FwL View Post
I'm thinking what he calls M2 is what most people call sus2.


The sus designation has traditionally meant sus4 and his sus and sus7 are referencing that. In certain circles (jazz especially) there is this idea that you want to avoid playing the 4 over the major I chord. The IV chord has a #4 diatonically. That leaves V for using sus or sus7. By extension (no pun intended) any dominant chord can be sussed.

Plenty of songs use sus4 on the I chord and don't concern themselves with avoiding the 4.

.
But isnt a M2 chord more correctly a
1 2 3 5 ?

Sus2: 1 2 5

Difference being that the M2 also has the major third.
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Old 07-16-2017, 05:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zanshin777 View Post
When saying dominant "b7" comes to my mind.
Dominant means "V"; not "b7".

A "dominant 7th" chord is so-called because it derives from the V (dominant) degree of a scale.

The intervals it contains are: major 3rd, perfect 5th, minor 7th. (At least from the V degree of major or harmonic minor.)

In key of C major, G (triad) is the dominant chord. (Like C is tonic, F is subdominant, etc.) Add a 7th (F) and it becomes a "dominant 7th".

But to answer your question, it doesn't look to me like he's saying sus chords are necessarily dominant. What he's doing on the board is saying the dominant (V) chord can be expanded into a 7, 9, 13, sus4 or 7sus4. ("sus" on its own means sus4, btw.)

You could use a sus4 on the tonic chord - it would add tension, but not make it dominant. He just hasn't added that option on his tonic list.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zanshin777 View Post
Chord Structures

sus2 : 1, 2, 5

sus4 :
1, 4, 5

9th : 1, 3, 5, 7, 9

11th : 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11
In practice - in normal functional sequences - 11th chords don't exist, because of the clash between 3 and 11.
If you see an "11" chord symbol - in jazz, pop or rock - always assume it's shorthand for 9sus4, or 7sus4. I.e., including the 11th, but omitting the 3rd. (The 9 is optiona)
Some advanced harmony - as I understand it - does use a full 11th chord, but cross that bridge when you come to it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zanshin777 View Post
2) What is M2 chord?
That's one of those ambiguous (unconventional) symbols! It could mean sus2 (1-2-5), it could mean add9 (1-2-3-5).
The capital "M" is even used as shorthand for maj7 sometimes (as he is using it, in fact), so maybe "M2" means 1-2-5-7, or 1-2-3-5-7! Who knows?
IOW, anyone using it is asking for trouble.

Here's some conventional symbols for tonic chord variants:

6 = 1-3-5-6
maj7, M7, Δ = 1-3-5-7
maj9, M7, Δ9 = 1-3-5-7-9
6/9 = 1-3-5-6-9
add9 = 1-3-5-9
maj13, M13, Δ13 = 1-3-5-7-13 (9 optional, no 11)
sus2 = 1-2-5

sus4 is possible on a tonic chord, but only as a passing dissonance, not as a consonant extension.
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:53 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Morfz View Post
But isnt a M2 chord more correctly a
1 2 3 5 ?

Sus2: 1 2 5

Difference being that the M2 also has the major third.

You got me. I wouldn't call a chord M2. It looks too much like a secret agent designation to me.
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