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Old 09-19-2017, 12:20 PM   #11
Proglysergic
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I think that learning every note is pretty exhausting. Learning all the modes in every position (in as many keys as possible) will probably only take slightly longer but will pay off tremendously. I don't recall ever really having to ask myself, "where is F# in this position" on the fly. While messing around? Sure, it could arise. In practice is a different story. Some ear training and knowing your shapes and being able to transition between them essentially serves the same end state as far as I'm concerned.


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Old 09-19-2017, 12:28 PM   #12
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Now that I think of it, I only really have to know note names when I'm communicating with someone verbally. Telling you to play EF#GABCDE is going to have the same outcome as telling you to play the E minor scale.


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Old 09-19-2017, 07:45 PM   #13
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I haven't seen the "tricks" to learning all the notes mentioned in this thread yet and maybe it's obvious but most people already know a lot of the notes even if they don't realize it.

Most anyone knows the first 3 frets, the 12th fret is the same as the open strings, with one exception the 5 fret is the same as the next open string and everything else can be figured out by knowing the octave pattern horizontally.

There really is very little memorizing required.
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Old 09-20-2017, 09:15 PM   #14
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After thinking about it more the most I see myself doing at the moment is Knowing where best to land on a note.

I think my muscle memory or whatever knows what shapes to take. It's given me more movement around the neck, and the confidence to hit a note instinctively. If I hit one that don't fit how I hear it in my head I know that needed note is near. Sometimes that bad note takes playing into a different key, and the melody changes.

I remember someone saying on the forum there are no wrong notes, but there are, and I my aim is to avoid them as much as possible lol.

The note names and location are not as important as I thought they were, well for me at least. I think intervals are important. I was just curious as to what I was doing because having more freedom around the neck is new to me.
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:43 AM   #15
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Knowing your notes is important. Then again, knowing all of your shapes will pay more dividends in my experience.

See it this way: you determine someone is playing something in C by whatever method you choose, you think of what notes are available to you, visualize all 7 of them on the fretboard, then play those notes.

Alternatively, you can find your 2 semi-tones or 3 sequential whole tones (which will directly identify any mode of the major scale), find your modal shape (if you see the fretboard that way), and play those notes.

Likewise, you can find the notes available to you, then find the shapes that correlate to those notes.

I prefer the latter 2. People can easily remember the 7 sets of 3nps (and most also respond well to the CAGED system) since it's easier to remember 7 shapes and then line one of them up to what you're playing instead of finding a note, recalling the name, then assembling them to figure out your key. If you know modes or would like to, learning 3nps will serve that as well as the ability to move more freely. It isn't the end all, be all but it will make a huge dent.

Personally, I view everything relative to the tonic. Once I find my key, I just see where my tonic is in a few places that I may jump to. 2 strings up and 2 frets higher, one string down and 5 frets higher, one string up and 7 frets higher, 4 strings up and 5 frets higher (always on 6s, always but once on a 7, etc.) yada yada. Then I MAY identify where a few other intervals fall relative to that.

TL;DR version:
One way or another, you're going to have to visualize a shape. Knowing the specific note you're playing at all times probably won't help you much, especially if you know 3nps and or CAGED.


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Old 09-22-2017, 09:48 AM   #16
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Another way to view it is this: you ask any musician that you admire what he or she just played during an improv and they'll tell you something along the lines of "something in F Lydian in 6/8 and then D mixolydian in 5/8" but they'll never tell you " F G F B A F F# D E C B."

The better you can consolidate large groups of information with music, the better.


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Old 09-22-2017, 09:35 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Proglysergic View Post
Knowing your notes is important. Then again, knowing all of your shapes will pay more dividends in my experience.

See it this way: you determine someone is playing something in C by whatever method you choose, you think of what notes are available to you, visualize all 7 of them on the fretboard, then play those notes.

Alternatively, you can find your 2 semi-tones or 3 sequential whole tones (which will directly identify any mode of the major scale), find your modal shape (if you see the fretboard that way), and play those notes.

Likewise, you can find the notes available to you, then find the shapes that correlate to those notes.

I prefer the latter 2. People can easily remember the 7 sets of 3nps (and most also respond well to the CAGED system) since it's easier to remember 7 shapes and then line one of them up to what you're playing instead of finding a note, recalling the name, then assembling them to figure out your key. If you know modes or would like to, learning 3nps will serve that as well as the ability to move more freely. It isn't the end all, be all but it will make a huge dent.

Personally, I view everything relative to the tonic. Once I find my key, I just see where my tonic is in a few places that I may jump to. 2 strings up and 2 frets higher, one string down and 5 frets higher, one string up and 7 frets higher, 4 strings up and 5 frets higher (always on 6s, always but once on a 7, etc.) yada yada. Then I MAY identify where a few other intervals fall relative to that.

TL;DR version:
One way or another, you're going to have to visualize a shape. Knowing the specific note you're playing at all times probably won't help you much, especially if you know 3nps and or CAGED.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by Proglysergic View Post
Another way to view it is this: you ask any musician that you admire what he or she just played during an improv and they'll tell you something along the lines of "something in F Lydian in 6/8 and then D mixolydian in 5/8" but they'll never tell you " F G F B A F F# D E C B."

The better you can consolidate large groups of information with music, the better.


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That's great stuff Thanks. I'll digest that bit then give a reply.
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Old 09-23-2017, 03:57 AM   #18
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After thinking about it more the most I see myself doing at the moment is Knowing where best to land on a note.
You can't go wrong in ending on a chord tone. I've been working on that for quite awhile, and why I've slowed down my solo stuff a lot.

I've learned to listen to chord changes more. My biggest obstacle is my tinnitus kicks it pretty bad very often, then everything sounds like a blur.

I've been working on my intervals too, and try not to stay in a box, and why, if you see my last recorded vid, up moving up and down the neck more than in the past.
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Old 09-24-2017, 08:55 AM   #19
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You can't go wrong in ending on a chord tone. I've been working on that for quite awhile, and why I've slowed down my solo stuff a lot.

I've learned to listen to chord changes more. My biggest obstacle is my tinnitus kicks it pretty bad very often, then everything sounds like a blur.

I've been working on my intervals too, and try not to stay in a box, and why, if you see my last recorded vid, up moving up and down the neck more than in the past.
I'm most probably already doing that without me knowing. Was just reading about chord tone practice etc, and some YT vids, but went over my head a bit.

If I'm noodling over a chord progression I can hear those times I slide into a note that just fits, and sounds sweet. I can only guess I'm picking out the main tones that make up the chord?. If I stay there when the chord changes it can still sound good, but takes a different direction. Again I'm guessing say it's a CGD progression, and not landing on the notes of a chord can still work because the progression works...I dunno.

My wife suffers with tinnitus. I've had bouts, but glady not often.

Hearing the major scale as has been a good thing for me to begin with. From basic boxes to leaving notes out, and string skipping. From there I've managed to play wider intervals if that's such a thing. I've not seen your last vid. Theory?.
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Old 09-24-2017, 04:02 PM   #20
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If I'm noodling over a chord progression I can hear those times I slide into a note that just fits, and sounds sweet. I can only guess I'm picking out the main tones that make up the chord?. If I stay there when the chord changes it can still sound good, but takes a different direction. Again I'm guessing say it's a CGD progression, and not landing on the notes of a chord can still work because the progression works...I dunno.

My wife suffers with tinnitus. I've had bouts, but glady not often.

Hearing the major scale as has been a good thing for me to begin with. From basic boxes to leaving notes out, and string skipping. From there I've managed to play wider intervals if that's such a thing. I've not seen your last vid. Theory?.
Sounding sweet and hitting a chord tone in the right places can be 2 different things. It's normally at the end of a phrase that you want to hit a chord tone- the 1, 3, & 5. And maybe the 7, 9, 13. The 9 can be the 2nd of the scale, so where you play it is important.

If you arpeggiated a chord, you'd be playing all the chord tones. It took me years to finally figure out why Knopfler sounds so sweet- he's constantly playing little arps all over the place.

I've been playing wider intervals too. Instead of going across the board, I'm moving up and down more, or using different fingerings outside of the pent "box 1."

The vid's nothing special outside of me getting out of the box. This was in a major key, and country sounding. I was finding my way around, and trying to play over the chords. I hit a massive clunker around- well, I'll let you find it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWcwf3RRMMQ Look at the jam tracks Aly has put up in the jam clinic. I'm not a fan of major keys, so it's a great way for me to get out of my comfort zone.
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