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Old 05-19-2017, 04:52 PM   #51
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And for the record, it terrifies me that the government is destroying the healthcare system that me and my family will inevitably need. We are all already impoverished compared to what would have occurred had the government kept its greedy, grasping mitts off healthcare and insurance for the last century.
The healthcare and insurance industrial complex is doing just fine, thank you. Profits have never been higher......... Buying politicians and subverting the government is very profitable.
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My only hope is that markets can innovate faster than the government can destroy them.
Certainly at odds with my only hope....... My only hope is that We The People can innovate faster than the oligarchs can destroy OUR government.


For-profit healthcare and it's insurance is a stupid way of ensuring healthcare for a nation, thus leading to an unhealthy nation, both physically and economically.

“Medicare For All” is the answer.......... It's just a matter of time before the liberal mindset once again prevails, and the conservatives yet again find themselves on the wrong side of history.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:20 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
The healthcare and insurance industrial complex is doing just fine, thank you. Profits have never been higher......... Buying politicians and subverting the government is very profitable.Certainly at odds with my only hope....... My only hope is that We The People can innovate faster than the oligarchs can destroy OUR government.


For-profit healthcare and it's insurance is a stupid way of ensuring healthcare for a nation, thus leading to an unhealthy nation, both physically and economically.

“Medicare For All” is the answer.......... It's just a matter of time before the liberal mindset once again prevails, and the conservatives yet again find themselves on the wrong side of history.
If it's our government how does the insurance industrial complex buy and subvert it? How do oligarchs destroy "Our" government?

It is impossible for a single representative to actually represent the incredibly diverse and large of number of people he supposedly represents. Our current economic situation is evidence that there is no "our" government. These people run for office to get paid and look out for themselves. That means doing what the oligarchs and industrial complexes tell them to.

Insurance companies having to deal with customers direct is the only way costs can be controlled. It's the corrupting force of regulations and mandates that the insurance companies use to obtain a monopolistic market that drives up their profits and decimates our choices.

Medicare is broke and is the main reason for costs exploding. It can not be sustained.
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:38 PM   #53
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I don't like to wear tinfoil, but it seems that who has been elected is leading the clown show with intent that was attributed to the last president on a daily basis. If my spidey sense didn't tell me different, I would say there IS some collusion between the white house and foreign powers to stir up our government to almost UN-performable depths. "Draining the swamp" doesn't mean getting stuck in the quicksand left behind...

This has to be the most fucked up and dysfunctional modern government the United States has had an at least 40 yrs. Very Nixonian..
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Old 05-19-2017, 11:47 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by Silimtao View Post
If we are to assign fault before being allowed a service, than I can make an argument that one shouldn't have the fire department show up if you you didn't secure a fire place, or BBQ, and a stray spark sets your property on fire. . Or be denied help from the police department if you left your door unlocked, and strangers walked in and stole your guitars.

What's really out of our control- particularly those in red states- are governors not taking advantage of expansion monies, when there were hundreds of billions to be given out. Many red state governors turned down money, at the cost of their citizens, just to "prove" how horrible the ACA was.

The ACA was supposed to be an evolving social welfare policy. If anyone believes the the AHCA is better, they're being willfully ignorant. States will be able to pick and choose what a pre-existing condition is, and apply for waivers.

While the ACA wasn't perfect, as I've pointed out a million times, and this is easily proven- look to your own red state governor that turned down expansion monies.
The ACA is still standing if limping. I don't think the Republicans stand a chance of providing something better, ever. There is no better by their definition of health care, just cost cutting and coverage denial. Instead of REPEAL!!! ad nauseum, they would have gone a lot further and gained enormous trust by fine tuning the parts of the ACA that folks find a burden. That has been done with every social policy ever put into place in America, not outright removal.

As it stands, they are going to put out some lame, short sighted care thing that is going to get them booted from office for another generation. And ya know what? They will deserve it for being shortsighted and malignant toward the last president and boasting about how much better they will make it while making it worse.
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Old 05-22-2017, 01:34 AM   #55
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I bet there are very few forum members that do not have a pre-existing condition. Not only does health insurance coverage hinge on this frequently, but jobs & others things do as well.

Sorry, you did not get the job, not because you are (black/white/asian/hispanic) but because you have Diabetes & your A1C is 10%.

Both my parents have high blood pressure. I am not fat, I exercise regularly, I eat healthy, my cholesterol is low, etc. In other words, I have done everything in my power to avoid high blood pressure & got it anyway. I was genetically predisposed.

Whether we have Obamacare, Trumpcare, or Nocare, my question is......

Should people with pre-existing conditions be discriminated against?
I'd support single-payor insurance the day that all illegals are deported, none who became citizens by being anchor babies are covered, and the 1 MM legal immigrant inflow is curtailed to 25K per year.

Do all that, and I'd gladly vote for single payor.
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Old 05-22-2017, 01:36 AM   #56
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In my opinion this seems crazy, but I do understand it from the companies perspective...

You definately need to have a very clear definition of what a pre- existing condition is. Does bad eye sight count ? It should for being a pilot, but not for a regular office worker. Depression? High blood pressure ? Diabetes? Overweight? Seems pretty crazy to me to be able to employ someone who doesnt have one of these rather then someone who does have high blood pressure or diabetes.

I know for sure that you cant do this in Sweden. Free health care makes sure we dont have to have this discussion. At the cost of high taxes.
After the mass influx of muslims into the country, let's see how long Sweden will have that generous welfare and health system in place...
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Old 05-22-2017, 02:30 AM   #57
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I'd support single-payor insurance the day that all illegals are deported, none who became citizens by being anchor babies are covered, and the 1 MM legal immigrant inflow is curtailed to 25K per year.

Do all that, and I'd gladly vote for single payor.
Please explain how this whole anchor baby scam works.
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Old 05-22-2017, 02:51 AM   #58
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If it's our government how does the insurance industrial complex buy and subvert it? How do oligarchs destroy "Our" government?

It is impossible for a single representative to actually represent the incredibly diverse and large of number of people he supposedly represents. Our current economic situation is evidence that there is no "our" government. These people run for office to get paid and look out for themselves. That means doing what the oligarchs and industrial complexes tell them to..
The insane decision on Citizens United handed down by the conservative leaning Supreme Court certainly didn't help to curtail the problem. In fact, it made it perfectly legal to bribe public officials.

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Originally Posted by Smedley Fingers View Post
Insurance companies having to deal with customers direct is the only way costs can be controlled. It's the corrupting force of regulations and mandates that the insurance companies use to obtain a monopolistic market that drives up their profits and decimates our choices..
Insurance companies have been dealing directly with customers for years. Fuck the insurance companies, they provide absolutely no vital services. They simply skim loads of money from the top and deny medical services in interest of increasing their profits........... The corrupting force of money in politics thwarting regulation is what produces monopolies.
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Medicare is broke and is the main reason for costs exploding. It can not be sustained.
That's precisely what the Wall Street banksters' corporate owned media want you to believe. They would just love to divert all of the Medicare and SSI dollars to Wall Street......... Medicare works just fine, (as do other single payer systems around the world) and is solvent for years to come, despite the Republican's repeated attempts at sabotage. e.g., Medicare Part D, which won't allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices, and the doughnut holes (cuts in services) which opened the door for Medicare supplemental policies.

Single Payer systems such as “Medicare For All” negotiate and implement price control for services and prescription drugs, thus lowering costs. Also, they operate on a much much much lower overhead than do insurance companies.......... Medicare currently runs on a 2% overhead
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:22 PM   #59
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Well despite the general shitty weather, after reading through this thread, I am truly glad I live in Scotland.

I have been diabetic type one for 24 years now. Five insulin shots a day (43,800 spikes to date.) A range of prescription drugs to protects eyes and kidneys by lowering blood pressure 110/60 at present.

We used to pay for prescriptions but not for life term conditions, although all prescriptions are now free.

So had I moved to America in 1973 (Oregon) how much would this have cost me in medical bills, Insurance?

Now for the million dollar question. If a small Island like the U.K. can set up the National Health Service, why can't the most powerful country on the planet do the same? Our NHS and pension schemes are partly paid for by National Insurance Contributions, which are deducted from salaries after general taxes have been taken.

Sure the NHS isn't perfect and it's a money pit, but it has kept working for decades.
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:57 PM   #60
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Originally Posted by Dirt View Post
The insane decision on Citizens United handed down by the conservative leaning Supreme Court certainly didn't help to curtail the problem. In fact, it made it perfectly legal to bribe public officials.

Insurance companies have been dealing directly with customers for years. Fuck the insurance companies, they provide absolutely no vital services. They simply skim loads of money from the top and deny medical services in interest of increasing their profits........... The corrupting force of money in politics thwarting regulation is what produces monopolies.That's precisely what the Wall Street banksters' corporate owned media want you to believe. They would just love to divert all of the Medicare and SSI dollars to Wall Street......... Medicare works just fine, (as do other single payer systems around the world) and is solvent for years to come, despite the Republican's repeated attempts at sabotage. e.g., Medicare Part D, which won't allow Medicare to negotiate drug prices, and the doughnut holes (cuts in services) which opened the door for Medicare supplemental policies.

Single Payer systems such as “Medicare For All” negotiate and implement price control for services and prescription drugs, thus lowering costs. Also, they operate on a much much much lower overhead than do insurance companies.......... Medicare currently runs on a 2% overhead
Right, got it Dirt. All is well. It's just republicans and conservatives who are screwing everything up. Medicare and social security are fine and fully funded. Your representatives are bribed and the wise know it all sages on the high court make decisions against your will but your answer is to give these people more authority and power. How does the VA hospital work for vets? I'll assume you're going to tell me how stellar it is.
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