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Old 01-11-2018, 07:49 PM   #61
ronpfid
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My point is concerning "those people". The Greeks are ignorant and their beliefs mystical yet yours are perfectly reasonable? The savages are ignorant children that need to be converted to a rational religion.

On a related not, you don't know how I view people who do and do not believe in God.

The people I know personally that are active religiously impress me as more kind and generous than the people I've met who are not religiously active or who are extremely vocal about their religion. I also have close friends who are atheists. I don't give points one way or the other.

Most of my friends in the group I call "quietly religious" they seem to expend energy on helping people rather than converting them. I like people like that even if I don't believe what they do.
Well... kinda...
There are many versions of what most call God, then there are other 'gods' that people have had. Of course all think their version is right, what can I say more about that? It's just now it is.
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Old 01-11-2018, 07:52 PM   #62
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Evolution is not a belief system. It's a theory based on evidence. As the evidence changes or is reinterpreted, theories change and/or other theories emerge. That process is science.

Perhaps, the scientific method is a belief system?
Evolution IS based on belief, all things are that are not seen. And even some of those still take belief.
My beliefs are based on evidence too. Written historical (more than just the bible) evidence, as well as artifacts, etc.

Ok, I'll give in and post what happened to us, even this, absolutely SEEN and EXPERIENCED by me, still to me isn't solid and leaves questions, see next post, I hope you read it as this will be some finger tiring typing.....
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:08 PM   #63
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OK, I rarely talk about these events that happened to me and my wife, I don't want people to think I'm some kind of nut job. As many people seem to actually be, maybe some make things up for attention, who knows. But I assure you, as real as everything you know as real, this was exactly, ... without any embelishment, what happened to us. Maybe there is some unknown scientific explanation for it, some kind of worm hole, intradimensional gobbly gook thing, I dunno... but here is the story. Take it as you will....


In the early 90's we lived in this small rental house in CDA Idaho. This house to be exact
https://www.google.com/search?q=coeu...YD6LnoO18c_ZM:

After living there for a while, my wife told me one day, she heard some kind of music box type music quietly somewhere in the house. I'm like... 'Ok, someone forgot their meds lol'. She's like 'No, seriously, kinda freaky'. OK what ever...

She mentions it again, says it sounds like it's coming from that closet in the living room, the one with the little hatch that leads to the attic. Sure... ok...

Then one day, I heard it, no way. Weird. I open the closet and it's a bit louder in there. She's like, climb up, look in the attic. No freaken way lol

One day weeks later, my wife is in the bedroom getting ready, she hollers 'Hey did you take my hair brush?'. Ummm no, where'd ya leave it? I keep it on the dresser.
I walk in, look, she's like 'yeah, it's really not on the dresser, I'm not blind lol'. OK it's not. Well, you must have moved it. She's like I never take it, I keep it here. I say, go check the bathroom, so she goes, 'Nope, not in here', so she walks out as I'm leaving the bedroom, I say check your purse, she's like 'I have one in my purse, it's not in there' me, just check. So we walk out and she's digging in her purse. I say 'maybe it fell off the dresser between the wall, I'll look there while you check your purse'. I walk into the bedroom to look and whoa, there it is, on the dresser, right there in plain site, in the spot that was empty a few minutes ago. I'm like 'Ummm... it's here, are you trying to freak me out' She walks in, stops... 'no way, you found it and put it there'. I'm like, uhhh no, it was sitting here when I walked in. Ok, that's freaky....

A couple weeks later, we're watching TV in the evening, on the wall by the couch were 3 pictures hanging, like diagnonal-wise. We're sitting on the couch watching some show, our border collie Roger is laying on the floor between the couch and TV. All of sudden, scrape scrape, the middle of the 3 pictures starts swinging back and forth, the other two are still. Like someone flicked it with their finger, we both spin our heads and look at it, then at each other, what the ..... then our dog picks his head up, and is looking that way, but not at the picture, his eyes are pointing like he's looking at someone standing in front of the pictures. Then he stands up, starts wagging his tail as his head turns to 'watch' this unseen person walk/move from there to like between him and us on the way by. Man I tell ya, I actually had freaken goose bumps for real at that one. He keeps watching then acts like he's walking beside this 'person', walking and looking up to 'it' 'him' 'her' 'what ever' following it. We jump up and follow behind, he follows 'it' wagging and looking up to the closed extra bedroom door then like 'it' passed through the closed door, he runs up and stands and starts scratching at the door. Whoa!!! We open the door and he goes running in there, sniffing around like he's wondering where that person went.

OK, that's it were moving! And we did!

We never told anyone at that time. Then months later we run into our old neighbors Jim and Eva at the store. We're all, hey how you guys been, there like good, how's the new place? Were 'Great, much bigger', we ask, hows the new people in our old house, what are they like? Jim goes 'Their nice, kinda quiet, but the husband was telling me your old house is haunted or something, he said weird sh*t happens and they hear things haha'.
I laugh, then think, ok, we didn't have mass hysteria lol Freaky...

So, what was all that? I dunno. People would call it ghosts or something, was it? I really don't know, I don't technically believe in ghosts, but, what the heck caused all that. People might think it wasn't exactly as I wrote, that's fine, it absolutely was, 100% exactly as written.

Just don't laugh at me, if this stuff IS real, I might haunt you one day lol
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:19 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by ronpfid View Post
OK, I rarely talk about these events that happened to me and my wife, I don't want people to think I'm some kind of nut job. As many people seem to actually be, maybe some make things up for attention, who knows. But I assure you, as real as everything you know as real, this was exactly, ... without any embelishment, what happened to us. Maybe there is some unknown scientific explanation for it, some kind of worm hole, intradimensional gobbly gook thing, I dunno... but here is the story. Take it as you will....


In the early 90's we lived in this small rental house in CDA Idaho. This house to be exact
https://www.google.com/search?q=coeu...YD6LnoO18c_ZM:

After living there for a while, my wife told me one day, she heard some kind of music box type music quietly somewhere in the house. I'm like... 'Ok, someone forgot their meds lol'. She's like 'No, seriously, kinda freaky'. OK what ever...

She mentions it again, says it sounds like it's coming from that closet in the living room, the one with the little hatch that leads to the attic. Sure... ok...

Then one day, I heard it, no way. Weird. I open the closet and it's a bit louder in there. She's like, climb up, look in the attic. No freaken way lol

One day weeks later, my wife is in the bedroom getting ready, she hollers 'Hey did you take my hair brush?'. Ummm no, where'd ya leave it? I keep it on the dresser.
I walk in, look, she's like 'yeah, it's really not on the dresser, I'm not blind lol'. OK it's not. Well, you must have moved it. She's like I never take it, I keep it here. I say, go check the bathroom, so she goes, 'Nope, not in here', so she walks out as I'm leaving the bedroom, I say check your purse, she's like 'I have one in my purse, it's not in there' me, just check. So we walk out and she's digging in her purse. I say 'maybe it fell off the dresser between the wall, I'll look there while you check your purse'. I walk into the bedroom to look and whoa, there it is, on the dresser, right there in plain site, in the spot that was empty a few minutes ago. I'm like 'Ummm... it's here, are you trying to freak me out' She walks in, stops... 'no way, you found it and put it there'. I'm like, uhhh no, it was sitting here when I walked in. Ok, that's freaky....

A couple weeks later, we're watching TV in the evening, on the wall by the couch were 3 pictures hanging, like diagnonal-wise. We're sitting on the couch watching some show, our border collie Roger is laying on the floor between the couch and TV. All of sudden, scrape scrape, the middle of the 3 pictures starts swinging back and forth, the other two are still. Like someone flicked it with their finger, we both spin our heads and look at it, then at each other, what the ..... then our dog picks his head up, and is looking that way, but not at the picture, his eyes are pointing like he's looking at someone standing in front of the pictures. Then he stands up, starts wagging his tail as his head turns to 'watch' this unseen person walk/move from there to like between him and us on the way by. Man I tell ya, I actually had freaken goose bumps for real at that one. He keeps watching then acts like he's walking beside this 'person', walking and looking up to 'it' 'him' 'her' 'what ever' following it. We jump up and follow behind, he follows 'it' wagging and looking up to the closed extra bedroom door then like 'it' passed through the closed door, he runs up and stands and starts scratching at the door. Whoa!!! We open the door and he goes running in there, sniffing around like he's wondering where that person went.

OK, that's it were moving! And we did!

We never told anyone at that time. Then months later we run into our old neighbors Jim and Eva at the store. We're all, hey how you guys been, there like good, how's the new place? Were 'Great, much bigger', we ask, hows the new people in our old house, what are they like? Jim goes 'Their nice, kinda quiet, but the husband was telling me your old house is haunted or something, he said weird sh*t happens and they hear things haha'.
I laugh, then think, ok, we didn't have mass hysteria lol Freaky...

So, what was all that? I dunno. People would call it ghosts or something, was it? I really don't know, I don't technically believe in ghosts, but, what the heck caused all that. People might think it wasn't exactly as I wrote, that's fine, it absolutely was, 100% exactly as written.

Just don't laugh at me, if this stuff IS real, I might haunt you one day lol
I have never had any ghost experiences but I don't doubt anything you say. Years ago my wife was in a coma and she to this day says that when she was in the ambulance that her Dad was there with her. Medical Science can most likely explain it away. When I was a teenager my neighbor of the same age lived with his elderly mom and one night he came pounding on the door. Turns out his mom was sitting in the rocking chair and passed. Her last words were right before she shut her eyes were, everything is getting dark and I'm coming Fred. Fred was her deceased husband. There is a story out there that the last words that John Lennon's Aunt Mimi spoke before she passed were, it's good to see you again John. Im sure there are a billion of these stories out there.
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:21 PM   #65
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Even my very own wife and daughters have told me about the ghost in our house. They always catch a glimpse of him in the dining room. I've been there for almost 20 years and never saw an anything that didn't have a natural explanation. My wife and daughters swear it happened, tho.
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:29 PM   #66
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Yep, and it's one of those things, you really can't believe or know what it's like unless you yourself see/experience it. I always mostly blew off stuff like that, until that house. Now, I'm sure much is made up, but I know some things like that, some of those accounts, must be real or seem real, or ??? All I know, is I myself was there and it was FREAKY!!!!
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Old 01-11-2018, 08:39 PM   #67
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Evolution is not a belief.....

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Old 01-11-2018, 09:13 PM   #68
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see but all that is a matter of opinion.
To me, evolution is a faith since it can't be seen happening, it's not science anymore than creationism is science, so it's just another religion. Also, the old freedom of speech, if a kid can talk about anything BUT his faith, then that is discrimination.
I meant balance of rights, speech, etc.

It's all opinion on this stuff, with our different belief structures, we can't agree on this stuff
A kid can talk about anything he wants to at school or elsewhere.

Evolution is science. This concept that if you can't see it, it must be something to be taken on faith, like religion, is just something that Christian apologists come up with keep their flock in line since it's not convincing as an argument to anyone else.

Evolution, the Big Bang, and Quantum Physics are about as close to "facts" as you can get in science given the number of confirming tests that have been done and confirmed over the years.

You can't see electrons. Are they just a "belief"? No one was around to see the dinosaurs. We have evidence but we have evidence of evolution as well. If you don't understand evolution that still doesn't mean it's only a "belief".

Also, "belief" isn't about the "unseen". Again, that must be an apologists attempt to equate science and belief.

A belief is something for which there is no evidence. Were there evidence it wouldn't require belief.

Science is based on evidence.

Last edited by Seattle; 01-11-2018 at 09:25 PM.
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Old 01-11-2018, 09:30 PM   #69
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Regarding haunted houses...

Pictures swing, people overlook hair brushes, people hear unexplained sounds, dogs freak out easily enough.

If I heard a music box playing and coming from the attic, I'd go up in the attic and find that once I got up there it didn't sound like a music box anymore, or it was a music box or the wind blowing though a crack actually did sound like a music box.

If I was looking for something, looked on the table, didn't see it, looked around the house and didn't find it and later saw it was on the table all along...I wouldn't move and I wouldn't think the most likely explanation was supernatural.

People who believe in this stuff find it all the time. People used to not understand that the weather varied and would therefore sacrifice a virgin to the crop gods and the next year the weather might be a little better (or not).
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Old 01-11-2018, 10:42 PM   #70
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People used to not understand that the weather varied and would therefore sacrifice a virgin to the crop gods and the next year the weather might be a little better (or not).
That's because she wasn't really a virgin. Duh!!!
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