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Old 01-12-2018, 10:17 AM   #231
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The point should also be that the "tone" isn't inherent to the material. It's the construction method. If something can be strong and thin at the same time it will move more easily and therefore displace more air.

Lower frequencies come from larger spaces and can also be accentuated due to the bracing. Higher frequencies are mostly generated near the bridge and on top of the sound board. You can have smaller guitars that are still good in the higher frequencies.

Tone is a construction related characteristic.
Why is it that given two acoustic guitars of the same model made on the same day from the same factory often sound different?

Why do Marimba makers use different species of wood blocks to manipulate tonal colors of their instruments?

Why would a fiddle maker tap the boards he is using to find resonant frequencies so the parts he is putting together all match?
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Old 01-12-2018, 10:05 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Smith357 View Post
Why is it that given two acoustic guitars of the same model made on the same day from the same factory often sound different?

Why do Marimba makers use different species of wood blocks to manipulate tonal colors of their instruments?

Why would a fiddle maker tap the boards he is using to find resonant frequencies so the parts he is putting together all match?
1). Because everything is slightly different. If a certain species of wood was "bright" or "warm" then they wouldn't sound different. Why assume it's the wood? Why not variance in the way the guitar is put together?

2). Apples and oranges...

3). Habit/myth. Being able to build a nice sounding fiddle doesn't mean that every thing you do has meaning. Why does a Major League baseball pitcher rub his nose every time just before he throws a curve ball? They think it makes a difference and so they continue to do it.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:03 PM   #233
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Instrument makers are so dumb. Putting consideration into the material before building something? What a waste of time. All wood is the same. Everybody on internet forums knows that.
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Old 01-12-2018, 11:47 PM   #234
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1). Because everything is slightly different. If a certain species of wood was "bright" or "warm" then they wouldn't sound different. Why assume it's the wood? Why not variance in the way the guitar is put together?
Because with modern CNC machining and construction methods they are the same.

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2). Apples and oranges...
If all woods sound the same as you insist then it is apples to apples as a Marimba in nothing more than a solid block of wood vibrating to generate a tone.


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3). Habit/myth. Being able to build a nice sounding fiddle doesn't mean that every thing you do has meaning. Why does a Major League baseball pitcher rub his nose every time just before he throws a curve ball? They think it makes a difference and so they continue to do it.
At 2:25 in this vid a guy hits a buch of similar blocks of wood in a frame, even a Luddite like me can hear the tonal differences, please explain.

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Old 01-13-2018, 12:02 AM   #235
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Instrument makers are so dumb. Putting consideration into the material before building something? What a waste of time. All wood is the same. Everybody on internet forums knows that.
All wood isn't the same. Wood just doesn't effect the sound of an electric guitar. There are other reasons to choosing the wood. You want it to be strong, dry, easy to work with, etc.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:10 AM   #236
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Because with modern CNC machining and construction methods they are the same.


If all woods sound the same as you insist then it is apples to apples as a Marimba in nothing more than a solid block of wood vibrating to generate a tone.




At 2:25 in this vid a guy hits a buch of similar blocks of wood in a frame, even a Luddite like me can hear the tonal differences, please explain.

Guitars can be poorly fitted, pickups vary, etc. It doesn't take much to hear a "difference".

Pickups on an electric guitar don't pick up sound from the wood so the wood is not relevant.

I don't know much about Marimbas but I would imagine there are differences in density and mass for the different sounds. You are arguing that a piece of mahogany has a certain sound. A more dense piece of mahogany sounds different than a thin piece of mahogany. It's the density of the wood that matters.

You could make an acoustic guitar out of two different pieces of wood and make them sound the same (as much as any two guitars can sound the same) if you matched the densities of the two pieces of wood and the strength characteristics.

In an electric guitar you don't even have to do this as it doesn't matter.
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Old 01-13-2018, 12:37 AM   #237
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Guitars can be poorly fitted, pickups vary, etc. It doesn't take much to hear a "difference".

Pickups on an electric guitar don't pick up sound from the wood so the wood is not relevant.

I don't know much about Marimbas but I would imagine there are differences in density and mass for the different sounds. You are arguing that a piece of mahogany has a certain sound. A more dense piece of mahogany sounds different than a thin piece of mahogany. It's the density of the wood that matters.

You could make an acoustic guitar out of two different pieces of wood and make them sound the same (as much as any two guitars can sound the same) if you matched the densities of the two pieces of wood and the strength characteristics.

In an electric guitar you don't even have to do this as it doesn't matter.
I was not discussing pickups, only the wood. So now you are saying the density of the woods can matter in the tone of an unamplified instrument. So I submit to you that the person playing a solid body guitar can feel these slight tonal variations in the wood in his hands and up against his body.

I also submit that these variations may be why a player prefers the "tone" of an Ash Tele over an Alder Tele, though the audience can not tell any difference in the amplified tones.
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:14 AM   #238
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I was not discussing pickups, only the wood. So now you are saying the density of the woods can matter in the tone of an unamplified instrument. So I submit to you that the person playing a solid body guitar can feel these slight tonal variations in the wood in his hands and up against his body.

I also submit that these variations may be why a player prefers the "tone" of an Ash Tele over an Alder Tele, though the audience can not tell any difference in the amplified tones.
Sure density matters in wood in an acoustic. It probably is more of an indirect factor with an acoustic. It might be stronger and therefore it's able to be thinner will move more. But sure, changing the density of wood affects the tone was well.

There isn't just a single tone in a guitar due to the way it's constructed so it's more important to focus on bracing, size, etc.

I'm not going to address to any great degree what someone can feel against their body and the differences. If you feel it or think you feel it and it matters to you...great. Whatever you like is whatever you like, just like color.

I don't personally think that the vibrations that someone is getting from the body of a thick piece of solid wood is significant and I think it's even less significant where you are talking about the difference in vibrations of a solid piece of ash vs alder but whatever floats your boat would apply in this case.
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:20 AM   #239
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I'm not going to address to any great degree what someone can feel against their body and the differences. If you feel it or think you feel it and it matters to you...great. Whatever you like is whatever you like, just like color.
I can't feel it, I'm tone deaf. I'm sure there are plenty of folks with a lot more sensitivity than I have that can feel tonal variation in a solid body guitar, and I will not just dismiss them with a "whatever"
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Old 01-13-2018, 01:40 AM   #240
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I can't feel it, I'm tone deaf. I'm sure there are plenty of folks with a lot more sensitivity than I have that can feel tonal variation in a solid body guitar, and I will not just dismiss them with a "whatever"
You can be tone deaf or even deaf and still feel vibrations. Supposedly that's what Beethoven did.

You're a better man than I am, I will dismiss it with a "whatever".
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