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-   -   Twist (http://www.guitarforums.com/showthread.php?t=47126)

PKVeazey 10-09-2017 07:27 PM

Twist
 
On several occasions I've seen post that mention a slight neck twist. Please remember that each string passes down the neck on its own and has no relationship to any other strings. I'm not advocating a 1/4 turn twist as being OK. However, I've often thought that a very slight twist to the right would make the guitar more comfortable to play in the lower Cowboy Chord position. Continuous mention of a slight neck twist indicates that little thought has gone into the mechanics of how a stringed instrument works. Now that you all are thinking that I have lost my mind, just consider the flat neck of a Classical guitar and the radius neck of everything else. Each string comes down that neck all by itself and what is going on next to it is not relevant.

ronpfid 10-09-2017 07:35 PM

So in essence, since the strings get smaller around from top to bottom, the neck could have a twist so the fretboard is higher up towards the smaller strings? Wouldn't the nut raise up too though and negate that? But wouldn't a twist, if I'm imaging what your saying right, change the action between 1st fret and higher frets as it went up?

Keith 10-09-2017 07:56 PM

Any twist, be it slight or large is not a good thing and should be corrected if possible, or a new neck installed.

PKVeazey 10-09-2017 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronpfid (Post 673864)
So in essence, since the strings get smaller around from top to bottom, the neck could have a twist so the fretboard is higher up towards the smaller strings? Wouldn't the nut raise up too though and negate that? But wouldn't a twist, if I'm imaging what your saying right, change the action between 1st fret and higher frets as it went up?

You're close but not quite there. The action would not change. However, if there was a massive twist, it would be a bit like a high radius neck when bending notes and when playing in the lower end, the strings could, but probably wouldn't, fret out about halfway down the neck. That's why a massive twist could be a bad thing. What I was really getting at was a very slight twist means nothing. Also I was making the point that if there was a tiny bit of right hand twist, you wouldn't have to reach around as much when playing in the first position. When thinking about a one string guitar, it would be irrelevant if there was any twist. Now, think about a two string guitar. The two strings come down the neck on their own and don't know the other exists. Now, add the 3rd string and the same thing applies. We get used to the idea that the strings relate to each other. They don't. We relate them together because of chord fingerings. Its our nature to think of things collectively instead of individually. Take for instance, a BRASS NUT. It is great for sustain. Well actually its not unless you are playing open tones, because the instant you finger a note you take the BRASS NUT out of the game. That didn't stop me from putting a BRASS NUT on my guitar. I get the sustain on open notes and the strings can't cut the nut groove any deeper than I cut them when I installed it.

Tony Done 10-09-2017 09:05 PM

I had a Gibson 12-string acoustic where the headstock was very noticeably twisted to one side, but the rest of the neck wasn't affected. Yes, a small twist that favoured the high strings (clockwise from the headstock end) could be an advantage. Thomas Humphrey built classicals where the fretboard fell away at the bass side. It wasn't twisted though, he took it off the fretboard thickness.

However, I would see any kind of warping as bad timber and indicative of possible future problems, a big minus.

ronpfid 10-10-2017 12:37 AM

It still seems to me, even a one string guitar, would have issues if the neck was twisted. Are you meaning like a piece of licorice? (twist but just a little).

PKVeazey 10-10-2017 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ronpfid (Post 673877)
It still seems to me, even a one string guitar, would have issues if the neck was twisted. Are you meaning like a piece of licorice? (twist but just a little).

If you can see the twist from 3 feet away, you've got a big problem. If you have to sight down the neck to detect it, you don't have a problem.

PKVeazey 10-10-2017 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith (Post 673865)
Any twist, be it slight or large is not a good thing and should be corrected if possible, or a new neck installed.

Here's something to think about. A compound radius neck that is 9" at the nut and flattens out to a 16" radius at the body end is equivalent to a slight twist.

DanRode 10-10-2017 12:28 PM

A compound neck shape is essentially a section of a cone. Unlike a twist, it is bilaterally symmetrical. The ends in a twist (warp) are not on the same plane. IMO, twist is a defect.
Quote:

Originally Posted by PKVeazey (Post 673887)
Here's something to think about. A compound radius neck that is 9" at the nut and flattens out to a 16" radius at the body end is equivalent to a slight twist.


PKVeazey 10-10-2017 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanRode (Post 673897)
A compound neck shape is essentially a section of a cone. Unlike a twist, it is bilaterally symmetrical. The ends in a twist (warp) are not on the same plane. IMO, twist is a defect.

Both are a compound curve.


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